"No, you don't understand," the White Knight said: "That's what the name is *called*."

[melannen]

Talk to me about what we call our characters.

And I don't mean in a story we're writing: that's its own problem, but it also always comes down to the story. I mean when we talk about shared characters outside of story - in our journals, in chatting, in meta, in captions - what names do we choose to use?

This comes up a lot in Untamed/MDZS fandom, of course, with the characters who all have three names, except the ones that don't, as complicated by filtering through different cultural understanding.

But it's not just fandoms in translation - one of my first fic fandoms was Earthsea, where characters all have a use-name and a truename. At least in Earthsea it's in-universe canon that a character's truename is always used (if there's anyone left to tell it) in the stories that are told about them after they're gone, so I am confident in calling Ged Ged and Estarriol Estarriol when I talk about their stories from this end (although Ogion is still called Ogion far more often than Aihal).

And even in fandom much closer to ours, there's the question of first names and nicknames and surnames. Is it Snape or Severus, Draco or Malfoy when I talk about them with others? I always call Holmes Holmes, because even Watson calls him Holmes, so who am I to call him Sherlock, but in modern adaptations it's Sherlock. When I was a kid, Captain Kirk was always Captain Kirk, but somewhere in there the Captain started feeling awkward (and in my head I often call him Jim, because, well, you know what 'Jim' means in Romulan :P), though half the time I still use it by habit anyway.

Meanwhile Captain Jack Sparrow is always Captain Jack Sparrow. Bruce Wayne is Bruce Wayne to me even though he's Batman to himself because it's Bruce Wayne I want to know better (but he's always Bruce Wayne because just Bruce is Bruce Banner.) Meanwhile Kal-el and Clark and Superman to me all refer to different facets of the same man, and I'll swap them around.

I sometimes feel like there's a general change as a fandom gets larger and/or older for fans in general to shift to less formal and more familiar forms of address for their characters, but I have no data on this, and maybe it's a general overall shift with time over all fandoms, more toward first names (do smushnames affect this?)

And, of course, there is the long and hallowed tradition of calling your fandom faves by embarrassing and/or mushy pet names whenever you can get away with it!

So what do you call your favorites? Do you have any fandoms where the naming of characters is especially tricky, or where something the rest of fandom does bug you or endears you? What are your thoughts on what we call our characters?

Comments

[alexseanchai]

I don't distinguish between "marinette dupain cheng" and "ladybug" or between "adrien agreste" and "chat noir" for Miraculous Ladybug Tumblr tagging purposes. Depending on which persona each one is being at the time, though, I might tag "ladynoir", "ladrien", "adrienette", "marichat", "snekmouse", "love square", or more than one of the above. And Ladybug/Snake!Adrien is Ladrien, Chat Noir/Rat!Marinette is Marichat, and Biker!Marinette/Banana!Adrien is Ladynoir, I don't care what anyone else says about it. (Snake!Adrien/Rat!Marinette is sort of Adrienette but also sort of not, and it's like Ladynoir but it explicitly isn't Ladynoir. Identity porn is fun!)

(Yes, the episode in which Marinette and Adrien don't have access to the magic that make them Ladybug and Chat Noir, but still need to go out and be Ladybug and Chat Noir without blowing their secret identities, involves Adrien in a banana costume on a foot-propelled scooter, in obvious contrast to Marinette and her bicycle, badass motorcyclist suit, and tinted/polarized/something-so-people-can't-see-in helmet. Yes, this even almost makes sense in context.)

Kagami is always "kagami tsurugi", though, never "ryuko", even when she's being Ryūko. And whenever she's shipped with either of the above characters, it's "adrigami" or "marigami" or "adrigaminette", regardless of which persona any of them is being at the time.

[highlander_ii]

when chatting w/ a fandom friend, we end up reducing most of the characters down to first initial unless that's super confusing. so, like with Suits - H = Harvey; M = Mike; R = Rachel; D = Donna.

we've picked up discussing a lot of Phantom of the Opera recently, which presents some additional problems with different actors in different performances of the characters - so they get listed by actor or performance depending on how different they are.

[china_shop]

I quite often use initials when talking about Guardian characters, especially for three-syllabled characters like ZYL (Zhao Yunlan). I used to always refer to the Envoy as the Black-Cloaked Envoy or the BCE, but now just "the Envoy" seems sufficient a lot of the time -- which is definitely a familiarity thing. I tend to use the Chinese term in dialogue for nuance (Hei Pao Shi, Hei Lao Ge, Hei Pao Shi Daren), but the English translation in narration. No idea if that makes sense/feels consistent to anyone else, though. :-)

[krait]

There is nothing to top Silmarillion fandom when it comes to names. Tolkien's delight in heaping name upon name on his characters really outdoes any other author.

Even Nirvana in Fire's Lín Shū | Méi Chángsū | Sū Zhé can't hold a candle to Nelyafinwë ("Nelyo") | Maitimo | Russandol ("Russo") Fëanorion, Maedhros the Tall, Prince of the Ñoldor, High King of the Ñoldor, Lord of Himring and the March, Maedhros the Kinslayer, Maedhros Self-Slain. :D

And then the author added in a few more variations due to linguistic shift and regional dialect, if that wasn't enough for you. (It's also sometimes spelled Maidros and is technically an Anglicised version of Maeðros, which its owner would likely have pronounced Maeðroþ.)

[pedanther]

In Doctor Who fandom, there's the additional challenge of identifying which version of the title character one is referring to. Common variations back when I was most active included both formal and casual versions of the ordinal, ie. "the First Doctor", "the Second Doctor", "the Third Doctor" vs "One", "Two", "Three" -- with some of the people using the formal version getting quite sniffy about how the casual version was Obviously Wrong -- and also formal and casual versions of the actor name, eg. "the William Hartnell Doctor", "the Patrick Troughton Doctor", "the Jon Pertwee Doctor" vs "Bill!Doc", "Pat!Doc", "Jon!Doc", etc.

[tielan]

For me, it always comes down to the point in time where the story is set, the intimacy of the characters, and, of course, canon reference.

The classic examples that come to mind for me are Stargate SG1 generally: who refers to whom by what name is very dependent on whose POV I'm coming from. It always made writing AUs rather interesting.

Or are you referring to how I talk about the characters when in discussion with other fans?

[unfeathered]

LOL, I remember when I first got into DW fandom (I'd always watched it, but only entered fandom after Torchwood aired) and got so confused by people talking about "Ten" all the time. I thought it must be an abbreviation of "Tennant" (logical!) until they started mentioning "Nine" as well, and then it finally twigged... :-D

Because to me, as a viewer but not a fan, then yes they'd always been called by the actor's name. But calling them by number makes it so much easier! (You know, until you get ones who you don't know where they fit, and obviously it doesn't work with the Master either...)

[luckyzukky]

ooh this is a cool question! in the hello project fandom, and in most j-idol fandoms, fans usually switch between calling idols by their first name, last name, or official nickname.

usually when they're called by their last name it's because another idol in the same group (or another closely related group) has the same first name, so it's easier saying their last name to differentiate. i see this in h!p fandom when people are talking about hamaura ayano and kawamura ayano, but say their last names so they aren't confused.

but most of the time people just talk about idols using their nicknames, since it seems less formal and it's just a cute way to refer to idols. an example is people talking about sato masaki and kudo haruka by their nicknames, maachan and duu. for me, i usually use nicknames too, but if an idol has a really short name (like dambara ruru) and a nickname sounds weird i'll just use their first name lol

[hannah]

Spike is the best-known name, the one for swagger, everyday conversations, new people, introductions, the one everybody better remember. William is both more removed and impersonal and formal, and way more intimate at the same time, and that depends on how it's said and who's speaking.

I just started The Americans, and it begins with the two main characters - deep cover KGB spies - only knowing each other by their assigned identities. They don't share their birth names with each other so they don't think of their partner as someone other than their cover identity. And even after that information comes up - in a deeply private, personal moment meant as a crack in the facade, this reaching for true connection in a life of lies - they still think of each other as the cover names, because that's how they met, and that's how they fell in love.

[ruuger]

And then you also of course have the Doctor vs Doctor Who debate :D

(which is clearly happening behind the scenes as well :D )

[sophia_sol]

I run into this problem semi-regularly when I join new fandoms and then have to figure out what names to use in tags when bookmarking fic to my pinboard. When I'm still new to a fandom and haven't yet settled into whatever's most comfortable to call the characters it's hard to know what version of the name to call them! Is it the name they call themself in their internal narration, is it the name most other characters call them, is it the name that third-person prose in canon calls them, is it a common nickname, etc. Depending on the fandom, it will end up being very different answers! I sometimes have to go back and change all my tags after I've been reading in the fandom for a little while. And sometimes I disagree with my past self's choices but then never quite get around to fixing the tags so I have some weird tags in places.

Anyway possibly my most idiosyncratic choice of what name to call a character is that I always call Jean Prouvaire by Jean Prouvaire or Prouvaire, as VHuggs does, rather than Jehan the way Amis fandom does. Jehan is canonically established as a name he chooses to go by among friends so that's extremely valid of people to call him, but to me it feels weird to be on a more intimate name-basis with him than his author is. So Prouvaire it is. (Also then it matches the rest of the Amis who don't get any first name.)

[primeideal]

I have that issue with Amis fandom too--most people call another character Bossuet, so I feel like I want to call him Laigle just to be contrary.

Les Mis fandom is randomly guessing at characters' first names, Animorphs fandom is randomly guessing at characters' last names. ;)

[goldgust]

I feel you about Holmes over Sherlock! Generally I go with whatever the narration / in-game text of a canon uses, and if that's absent I feel presumptuous and overly friendly (to a fictional character...) if I use a first name that barely any of the characters do. I also like to collapse names down (Hokuto>hkt, Martin>mr, etc, as long as it's clear in context) which is something that grew out of not wanting to show up in keyword searches on Twitter.

[stellar_dust]

Two .. okay, three thoughts on this.

1. Having just finished Temeraire, it was definitely sometimes a bit weird to read a story where everyone generally is called by their last name, except for some people (Napoleon, Demane), and lots of people have last names that are also first names (Roland, Laurence). I don't know what the fandom does with this but I would imagine it follows canon?

2. Politics is less of a "fandom" these days than it used to be I guess, but during the (US) Democratic primary I found it fascinating to see which candidate got called by their first vs. last name and under what circumstances, and by the campaign vs. news media vs. commentary.

3. I definitely headcanon that Crowley under no circumstances calls Aziraphale by a diminutive form of his name. Crowley's taken such pains with his own name that I don't think he'd take liberties with the name of someone he respects, unless they ask him to or if he's being an arse on purpose, and I doubt it would ever cross Aziraphale's mind to ask for it. (But although it's annoying, a stray Zira here and there isn't enough on its own to make me back out of an otherwise good story.)

Ok, I lied: 4. Speaking of angels ... the Cas vs. Cass issue for Castiel. I prefer Cas because .. his full name only has one S. But the closed-captions on Netflix spell it Cass and the double-letter spelling has entered both entertainment news media and fandom in some circles.

[polarissruler]

Now I really need to watch the rest of the show... If I remember where I dropped out, that's it.

[polarissruler]

In most of the fandoms, I don't have that problem. But if I try writing a Fate/ story... It becomes a mess of Sabers, Pendragons, Arthurs, Artorias, Arthuria (because I randomly misspel her name like that) and so on. And don't get me started with the otehr Servants.

EDIT: How could I forget? There's the eternal question of how to spell a name when there's no official (or even worse - not any at all) English translation.

[yourlibrarian]

Merlin fandom and the MCU are the exact opposite of one another it seems. I've occasionally seen "Merls" or "Morgs" or "Gana" used but in canon everyone was known by a single name with no nicknames (for example Gwen was known as Gwen and not Guinevere even though that was acknowledged as her full name). Most people were never given a last name either.

In the MCU Tony Stark probably accounts for the majority of nickname use. But when you've got people with two identities, I think it's likely there will be more nicknames. Lots of people call Steve Rogers "Cap", Clint calls Natasha, "Nat", she calls him Clint but others call him Barton. They're much less often referred to as Widow or Hawkeye. Bruce is Bruce to everyone, and some of them also call Hulk "The Other Guy" as he does, perhaps as a form of politeness. I can't recall anyone calling Bucky "James." Most just call him Barnes, although in fanfic he does go by James with certain people, especially those who hadn't known of him prior to meeting him.

One thing I get tired of in reading Tony/Loki fic is Tony constantly using the same nicknames he used in canon for Loki. But then Ragnarok made it canon that the one off he used for Thor got used regularly.

[alexseanchai]

I have a suggested viewing order!

[trobadora]

I used to always refer to the Envoy as the Black-Cloaked Envoy or the BCE, but now just "the Envoy" seems sufficient a lot of the time -- which is definitely a familiarity thing.

Same here. I still use "BCE" or even the full "Black-Cloaked Envoy" when I want to emphasize the (political or quasi-mythical) weight of the role, but otherwise ...

[peoriapeoriawhereart]

Tony strikes me as the sort to nickname profusely, but occasionally find one he really likes and immortalizes in one or another way. At which point he uses it less indiscriminately.

With Loki, it strikes me he'd want to keep his Game fast and furious.

[yourlibrarian]

True. I think Tony tends to be an outlier in that he very rarely calls anyone by their actual name. But it is interesting to see within the MCU how people relate to one another as evidenced by name use.

[china_shop]

Do you do the narration vs dialogue thing, too? I should know this, but I can't remember.

[trobadora]

Not really, but I don't have an established system for that. I decide on a story-by-story case.

[peoriapeoriawhereart]

It does make me want to see Canon!JimEllison(The Sentinel, TV) interact with MCU Tony Stark. I'll be with Blair Sandburg and a bucket of popcorn. Natasha and Barnes are the designated Russian Judges.

Steve:You're from Brooklyn!
Barnes:Mother Russia doesn't give up her sons. I need a lot of jam and vodka in my tea. Spasibo, Nat.

Throw in Nick Fury and an arc reactor won't be the only amazing power source.

[peoriapeoriawhereart]

Yeah, I mostly call him post-Winter Soldier "Barnes" or Tumblr tag as James Buchanan Barnes because Steve and people of that era call him Bucky and I'm not that inner circle. I'll call him Bucky sometimes for clarity with fen but in my mind, he's only Bucky or Sarge until he falls off the train.

Jerk or troll, well, I do write him so that's pretty intimate. I normally do provide much better conditions than canon.