Horror

[melannen]

What are your thoughts on horror?

I've been in a lot of fandoms lately that are at least adjacent to horror (judging by the number of undead), and I got assigned a technically-horror fandom for intoabar and multifandomhorrorexchange is doing sign-ups in May, so horror is on my mind. And I have some local friends who are big horror fans and really like the sort of renaissance of horror films of late.

My thoughts on horror are complicated and I haven't quite figured out how to articulate them. The best I can do is I don't not like horror, I just don't like horror - whatever it is that horror does for people, it doesn't seem to do it for me, but if there is enough to a story other than that whatever it is - if there's fun SF worldbuilding, or my kind of humor, or good character interactions, or an interesting plot etc., I might still like it a lot, I'm just going to be bored if it relies on the horror for everything.

But I'm not sure I can even explain to my satisfaction what it is that makes horror horror, and there are plenty of canons that sometimes get called horror that I would have said were just SF/Fantasy or suspense. Anyone have an answer that works for them?

Comments

[highlander_ii]

i try to write spook_me every year - but the last couple have thwarted me hard for some reason. maybe i'll have better luck this year.

i typically like suspense/thriller more than horror - but, like you, i don't *not* like it.

[melannen]

I'm not even sure I can say offhand what the difference between suspense/thriller and horror is, except that I guess suspense is a little less likely to have supernatural elements? But there seems to be one!

[princessofgeeks]

I just don't do horror. Usually I don't want to be scared as the main catharsis for my story. Also I don't like blood or medical stuff.

[melannen]

At least that's easy to explain!

I don't mind blood or gore - but I also don't find it entertainingly horrible, usually? It's just messy and mildly gross. (As I get older I've started to have a visceral shudder at some medical stuff, but it's more likely to happen on like, CSI shows than horror movies.) And I think part of why it doesn't work for me is that I don't tend to get scared at the parts where I'm supposed to get scared? IDK.

[forestofglory]

I am soft and squishy person and horror is not for me.

[dragoness_e]

I think what I really like is not horror, per se, but dark fantasy or sci-fi with horror elements. Stories about the monsters themselves, as protagonists, like several of my favorite vampire and werewolf novels. Lovecraftian horror by H.P. Lovecraft and Robert E. Howard, because both of them were so over the top with their Fear of The Other that it's not horrifying (except in the sense of "Dear God, what was wrong with you to write this??")... but in Lovecraft's case, lovely, creepy settings and a vocabulary to rival Tolkien's, plus fascinating authorial issues to unpack; and in Howard's case, really well-told slam-bang pulp action-adventure. If there's a horror in a Howard story, it will get an axe in the face.

I don't like horror stories with downer endings. Bittersweet endings, where the protagonists defeat the horror, but at a heavy price, are fine. Horror stories where the twist ending is "the protagonists all lose and never had a chance from the beginning" get a big thumbs-down from me.

[alias_sqbr]

I connect a lot with some horror elements but as a sort of...metaphorical expression of broader themes and story. Like stories about female/queer/disabled etc characters feeling monstrous and gross where they are literal gross monsters.

Pure horror for horror's sake squicks and bores me, and horror which starts out with interesting themes but turns into a generic horror plot irritates me.

[melannen]

I love the metaphor aspect that can come into horror! But I think I've thought about them too much because now if I watch a horror movie that doesn't understand it's own metaphor well enough I get mad. (But if the metaphor is too transparent I don't want to watch it either - like I don't really need to watch a horror movie where the monster literally *is* disablist doctors or racist police or something, I can just read nonfiction if I want to stay up all night with nightmares about that!)

[comet_scout]

I like horror but very casually, there is just so much I can take of it (suspense is what really kills me though). I think I like the horror aesthetic more than the horror in itself, especially found-footage horror aesthetic.

[copperfyre]

I didn't think I liked horror, but I am currently really enjoying The Magnus Archies which definitely has horror elements, so maybe I like audio horror but not visual horror? Or maybe, like you, I don't not like horror, but I also don't really like it, either, and TMA has hooked me with its fantasy element and tight plotting rather than its horror element.

[graveexcitement]

yeah, i’ve liked what i’ve listened to so far of TMA (20 eps in, listening at snail’s pace because i have trouble w/ focusing on podcasts), but the horror element isn’t what hooked me. i don’t not like horror, but i also don’t tend to seek it out unless it’s got like, interesting sci-fi/fantasy/lovecraft/etc. elements

[beatrice_otter]

Not a horror fan, I need happy endings. I can do angst and suspense, but there's gotta be a payoff beyond just the Final Girl surviving.

[melannen]

Maybe that's an important aspect of horror as compared to related genres? That even if all the characters get out safe for good, and even personally end up in a better place (which happens more often than you'd think really), they haven't fixed whatever was wrong with the world in the first places, and there isn't really any hope that they will....

[sodium_amytal]

I love horror. Stephen King is one of my favorite authors, and I'll read pretty much anything he writes. I enjoy most subgenres of horror: psychological, body horror, suspense/thriller, supernatural. I'm here for it. I am, however, pretty sick of vampire/werewolf stories, and cosmic horror usually gets a "meh" reaction from me.

Problem is, I suck at writing horror. Oftentimes I want to explore a scary idea in a story, but I also want to use whatever my current favorite ship is in said story, and for me, at least, horror novels/stories seem to put story over characters; not that there aren't good, fleshed-out characters in horror, but I usually see horror/world-building taking the drivers' seat, and any couples in horror stories tend not to survive. Which... I'm torn, because I love wham endings but I also like writing stories where my OTP survives. So.... *waves hands vaguely*

Horror tends to be a genre where I prefer to read profiction, genfic, or fanfic about ships I'm not invested in. I'm much more able to pull off thrillers/suspense stories while keeping my "OTP must survive/be happy together by the end" caveat intact.

[melannen]

One thing about horror is that it's a great setting for the kind of established relationship stories I like! Two people who love each other with a rock-solid relationship holding them up together as they stand back to back against a terrifying outside threat is my jam. That may be why I will sometimes click on fanfic tagged horror - because it's more likely to get me est-rel "gen" than a lot of other genres.

But yeah there's always the chance the writer will decide part of horror is to kill one of both of them so it's still a risk.

[caramarie]

I like horror. I like being disturbed! I would say it rarely actually scares me, as such ... the things that do freak me out are certain kinds of body horror (eyes where they shouldn't be; that one short film where the guy was trying to pull out the stitch from his wisdom tooth removal and kept pulling out other things instead) and also spelunking.

What I like about horror is probably much the same as what I like about thrillers? It's just that the ending has to strike a different note. Maybe the key point for me in horror is *failure* -- so even if they've fought off all the zombies today, ultimately the zombies will overcome; maybe one person has survived the horrors, but it's implied that it might not be over, or the person has been changed irreparably, and not in a positive personal-growth kind of way.

I tend more toward short horror than longer form – short stories rather than novels, or movies rather than TV (although maybe this is laziness on my part). A well done horror short story is a beautiful thing.

I feel like supernatural creatures are less likely to be attached to horror now? Like I'm more likely to run across vampires and werewolves reading urban fantasy than horror. Or even when they are used, they're not necessarily the horrific element ... I really enjoyed the show Tokyo Vampire Hotel, but the vampires weren't the disturbing part on that – that was more the concept behind the hotel (and all the building-related body horror, eek).

Fannishly, I don't really go for horror in fic, but I do enjoy horror in vids. And making them too! I like it when I can creep people out ^^;

[nyctanthes]

Maybe the key point for me in horror is *failure* -- so even if they've fought off all the zombies today, ultimately the zombies will overcome; maybe one person has survived the horrors, but it's implied that it might not be over, or the person has been changed irreparably, and not in a positive personal-growth kind of way.

Ooohh, I like this explanation.

[vulgarweed]

Oh, I LOVE horror but I'm a little picky about it I guess? I have housemates who are really into it, so I probably watched more horror this year than I have the whole 5 years previous, so I really got to think about what works for me and what doesn't. Ari Aster's films definitely do because the psychological background is so rich. The Orphanage did too, and Cargo. (Although I feel that some of these films rely a little too much on parental fear of bad things happening to children, and honestly that's just not something I really feel very strongly.)

I love things that are slipsteam, in-between genres that have elements of all of the above. Like Hannibal is horror and mystery, the X-Files is horror, SF/F, and mystery, lots of vampire stories are both horror and Gothic romance, etc.

Also a huge fan of cosmic horror. Anything that can give me those Arthur Machen/Lord Dunsany/H.P. Lovecraft shivers (and pushes back on the racism please thank you) is going to have my heart.

And comedy/horror. Love What We Do in the Shadows. Also G.S. Denning's Warlock Holmes books make me laugh so hard I pee a little. (Watson is the detective. Holmes is really not very bright but he's a powerful sorcerer possessed by demons. They go through their own twisted versions of the classic stories in a style I can only describe as Lovecraftian slapstick.) Not sure if it's really horror, definitely at least dark fantasy, but Gideon the Ninth is also freakin' hilarious.

[rionaleonhart]

I won't usually seek horror out - I don't like being scared! - but horror is really good for 'characters find themselves isolated together and forced to bond in a high-pressure situation', which is one of my favourite fictional themes. There are a handful of horror canons or canons with horror elements I really love; Silent Hill 2 and Until Dawn are the ones that spring immediately to mind.

I've also written a few psychological horror fics that I've really enjoyed working on. It's interesting to take a character apart, piece by piece, and see what's left of them at the end.

[bemused_writer]

Personally, I really like horror, but I'm also incredibly picky about what horror I like, and that can be a little hard to explain. To me, good horror can ask the same questions as other mediums I enjoy, such as sci-fi or fantasy, which is why it's often mixed with those genres. Basically, what does it mean to be human, what's right and what's wrong, and how do we surmount hardship (and if we can't, how do we handle that), and the exploration of the unknown.

I really like those types of explorations, but I don't like gross out or exploitative stuff. Of course, everyone's threshold for that will be different along with their interpretation of what does or doesn't count.

[imhilien]

I don't like horror unless there's comedy involved (Shaun of the Dead, What We Do In The Shadows) or it's bittersweet, haunted-house drama (The Others, Marchlands).

[nyctanthes]

I am pretty wimpy and don't watch much horror. Though when I was younger (pre-teens through early twenties) and the implications disturbed me less, I read and watched much more of it. That said, what I still like about horror is the bodily feeling it invokes. I'd compare it to jumping into an ice cold lake (I did this recently, in the days of planes, so I have a good basis for comparison.) There's the shock of hitting the water and you're swimming around thinking WHY?!?!?!?! When will this be over? But you stay in for as long as you can. And then you get out and you're tingly all over and your heart is pumping and your blood is rushing around your body and you know you are ALIVE and it feels great and you kind of want to do it again.

And, er, that to me is horror.

[melannen]

That sounds amazing! I wish it worked on me! :)

[naath]

Most horror just fails to work for me; so I need some plot that isn't "look! a zombie!" or "oh look, they split the party, and it was bad, what a shock!!"

Horror that actually gets to me tends to catch me by surprise, but I usually think it's a good surprise (I mean it's not 'good' but). The Buffy episode where she thinks she's in an asylum and has hallucinated all of the show... that's the type of thing that really gets me in the feels. Does that count as 'horror'?

[aurumcalendula]

I'm pretty picky about horror (and tend to prefer horror that doesn't have a bleak ending)

[melannen]

There seems to be a split in these comments between people who say "I don't like horror with a bleak ending" and "it's not horror if the ending isn't bleak" which may explain why it's so hard to define horror...

[firecat]

Random blather on the subject:

There are many different kinds of horror. I think some are fun and some are "huh?" and some are "no way am I going there."

For example one of my "huh?" types is certain kinds of body horror. I remember reading a Simon R Green story where at one point a house turns all squishy and mucusy, and I'm like "why is this horrific?" Maybe I have cleaned too many cat cages at the animal shelter, but body productions don't really horrify me. But Simon R Green does other kinds of horror that work for me (e.g., characters that the protagonist has to deal with to achieve a goal, but they are dangerous and unpredictable).

One thing that distinguishes horror from other fiction for me is that a world that feels chaotic and semi-inexplicable feels horrific in a way that, say, science fiction or fantasy where there are understandable rules for how the world works does not.

I'm especially noticing this now, because I've stopped being able to read horror (sorry, N. K. Jemisin's new series), and I think it's because the world feels too chaotic to me right now.

The "chaotic and semi-inexplicable" definition might explain why some typical horror tropes done in certain ways don't read as horror to me. For example, Mira Grant's Feed doesn't, because although zombies are a horror trope, her world makes a lot of sense. People know how the zombies work, how the infection is passed on. If the plot turns on "we know how things work, but we run out of resources to deal with them," that's not horror to me, it's something else.

Anyway, this all works out to my not being able to rely on a genre label to tell whether I'll react to something as horror or as something else.

[dragoness_e]

Mira Grant isn't writing horror, she's writing science-fiction with zombies (or carnivorous mermaids). I'm not sure she knows that, but that's her style. I've read enough of her work, under both nyms to see that--she's like me, her worlds make sense and have rules, even if the reader doesn't know that.

[impala_chick]

For me, horror encompass stories where characters face their fears (or the audience at least is forced to face a fear). It's true that there is a ton of variation, and there are definitely sub-genres that I avoid, but as a whole I love the genre because life isn't perfect. There are shitty things that happen every day, and horror films portray those things and exaggerate those things - instead of shying away from bad topics, they lean in. Basically, horror helps me process things. And a lot of the time, there's a somewhat satisfying conclusion - either the character lives or dies. I appreciate that in contrast to a lot of dramas where the plot just meanders.

[sabotabby]

I'm picky and hit-and-miss when it comes to horror. I was a huge Stephen King fan as a kid and ate up anything gory, and then a switch got flicked or something. It probably had to do with actually having to confront illness and death, or maybe the genre just got boring, I don't know.

This said, there's subgenres and horror-adjacent stuff that I quite like. Cosmic horror, the unsettling, Lovecraftian pastiche (not Lovecraft himself 'cause too racist), gothic horror, that's top-tier for me. Slasher movies are bottom-tier. I mentioned Jordan Peele's work to some actual horror fans and they deemed his movies excellent but not actually scary, whereas I find them terrifying.

Horror to me has an underlying pessimism that can verge on nihilism to me. Like if nothing ever changes, the serial killer is never really dead and will just be back in the sequel to kill off a new set of people, starting with the Final Girl who barely made it out alive? There's a certain art to that, but it's Not My Thing.

[ironed_orchid]

Someone told me that Us was confusing but not really scary or gross... and then I watched it and was not remotely confused, if anything I thought they spelled out too much, but was "DID YOU NOT SEE THE STUFF WITH THE SCISSORS!!!"

Which is to say that no one can be trusted unless you know their limits as well as your own.

[ironed_orchid]

I don't read a lot of stuff shelved under horror, and yet some of my favourite books/stories/authors are horror.

I particularly like stuff by Kelly Link and Carmen Maria Machedo, which is sort of a blend of sffh and surrealist literary fiction and which does have some body horror, but it's more connected to the visceral lived experience of women's bodies in patriarchal society than lots of violent blood and gore or hack and slash stuff.

I also like the sort of Lovecraftian cosmic horror where the characters can barely comprehend the malevolent forces at work. There are a number of good writers who work in this vein, but who engage with Lovecraft's racism in interesting ways.

[kore]

Ooh, you might like Kathe Koje (sp) if you haven't read her. Hmm, is Octavia Butler horror? Horror-like?

[goldgust]

I have no interest in horror.. but I do like seeing bad things happen to characters (or because of them). So I like stories that have horror elements, maybe even actual horror as long as there's more to it (I too enjoyed TMA before it gave me horrible nightmares) but it's not something I seek out for itself.

This is why I wish there was more horror fanfic of non-horror canons - if I already like the characters, getting to see them cope with such high levels of fear and stress is catnip to me.

[fred_mouse]

I read horror, but I'm more picky about it than I am other genres. I like my horror on the subtle end, but it has to be actual horror, and not just horrid people being horrid. And I'm much happier reading it than engaging any other way.

ETA: And for it to work for me, it has to buy into my fears and/or engage with topics that I'm horrified by in the real world. Body horror often works, gore and violence ('slasher horror') just don't.

[silveradept]

It turns out that I'm often more aggravated by decisions around the mechanics of horror than horror itself. I hate jump scares in visual media, which is kind of like saying you want to read a science fiction story with no white men in it. You can find them, but you're going to have to do a lot of ĺooking. So I do better with comedy horror and parody horror more than I do serious horror, and better still in print or audio than visually.

[doranwen]

I don't touch horror with a ten-foot pole, watching, reading, or writing. I love angst, but no creep factor, thank you! Supernatural horror in particular, ugh. Had a hard time with the Pretender Virtual Seasons that I otherwise liked, because of the horror episode and theme with that haunted house…