What is fanfic?

[melannen]

It seems like I've seen people trying to define fanfic way more than I expected in the last couple weeks, so I put the question to you folks: How do you define "fanfiction"?

I am going to set some constraints on what must be included in your definition, though, because a lot of the working definitions I see people use silently exclude things that are definitely fanfic.

• It must include RPF. Not necessarily all fiction about real people, but while I've seen lots of people arguing about the ethics of LotRPS or Taskmaster RPF, I've never seen anyone claim it's not fanfic. So you can't exclude the RPF that's definitely part of the fanfic community.
• It must include public domain fandoms. Les Miserables fanfic is still fanfic, Dracula fanfic is still fanfic, P&P fanfic is still fanfic, Sherlock Holmes fanfic is fanfic even if it's only about the first few stories.
• It must include fanfic that isn't publicly shared. We could argue about pure drawerfic I guess, but stuff only ever shared with a few friends can still be fanfic, or you're excluding my generation's hundreds of millions of words of preteen fic written in school notebooks and only shared around the lunch table.
• (Relatedly, it can't require the existence of the internet, or participation in a larger fanfic "community" - see all that lunch table fic.)
• It must include fanfic that is only available for money. It doesn't have to include all work done for money, but zines that cost money (even if it's a little over the price of shipping and printing, as a treat), patreon fic, and commissions are still often fanfic whether you personally like it or not.
• It must include stuff done with the rights owner's/creator's explicit approval. Young Wizards fic isn't suddenly not fic just because Diane Duane likes it and got some of her copyrights back.
• It's got to include stuff that isn't shippy (and definitely isn't porn). That's a minority of all fic ever written. It also can't say anything about quality (obviously) or the presence or absence of redeeming social importance.
• It must include fanfic that doesn't use any canon characters, or you're invalidating a generation of Pern fans with their carefully separate original weyrs. It must include fanfic that doesn't use any canon settings or plot points, because setting-swap AUs exists (so do atg pwps.)
• It can't rely on legal definitions because there are no laws that unambiguously define fanfic (also stuff doesn't suddenly stop being fanfic if you cross a national border.)

Somewhat more questionable but I think yes:

• Stuff that doesn't include canon characters OR plot OR settings. This does often get the "you might as well be writing original fic!" comments but it seems like your sequel to your massive AU epic about what your OCs were doing is probably still fic.
• Stuff written for a fandom of one. There's lots of fic on AO3 where nobody else has ever made fanwork for the canon and I think it's still fanfic.
• Audio-first podfic. Surely this is still fanfic right?

So come up with a definition that includes all of that. (What else you include or exclude is I guess up to you. Or arguments in the comments.)

Comments

[melannen]

I will admit that my working definition lately is either:

* I know it when I see it

or a two-part definition of:

* It's fanfic if the creator says it's fanfic
* It's fanfic if somebody is protesting way too hard that it couldn't possibly be fanfic

...but I realize those definitions aren't really useful in some contexts.

[minoanmiss]

An intriguing assignment!

I do like the term "transformative work" because it is so broad yet meaningful. For example, consider, "Stuff that doesn't include canon characters OR plot OR settings" I wrote a LOTR fanfic like this, at least in part. It was a brief biography of one of the Ruffians who infested the Shire; I had him come from one of the Name-on-the-map places that got no detail in canon, so I made that setting up, I made him up, I made up his evil adventures before and during his time in the Shire. I do still absolutely consider it a LOTR fanfic, in that I wrote it to explore a couple of unexplored bits of Middle-Earth. It's a transformative work.

[melannen]

I like the Transformative Works definition as a working idea for (transformative) fandom, but it definitely includes some things that aren't fanfic (most trivially, fanart!). And even divorced from the legal definitions that involve copyright, it's always sat kind of uncomfortably with RPF to me? According to Fanlore the OTW once had a definition that explicitly included RPF, but I can't find it now, and the bit quoted on Fanlore to include RPF from that cite seems like it's so broad that it would make basically all fiction fanfiction. (Which is ok with me though!)

You could put RPF under transformative works comfortably by defining a life as a work of art though, which I do really like just on a poetic level!

[silveradept]

With what you've said so far, it sounds like the working definition of fanfic is "a work that uses at least one recognizable element from a work by another author/creator." Possibly even "a work that uses at least one recognizable element, whose removal would severely impact the story, from a work by another creator."

[melannen]

I like that, but it does put at minimum pretty much all science fiction and fantasy under fanfic. And it also doesn't include RPF unless you say a life is a work by a creator, in which case nearly all fiction ever is fanfic.

(That's not necessarily wrong though, the original definition of fanfic back before Star Trek was something like "fiction created as a hobby by a fan" and included a ton of original sff.)

[extrapenguin]

Fanfiction is fiction based on a work of art (in its broadest meaning) or the public persona of a (well-known) human being that is not designated an official part of the original universe (sequel/prequel/etc) by the rights-holder or creator of the work of art, and meant to be read (or listened to) in context of the original work of art or public persona.

"Work of art" here would be broad enough to incompass ephemeral media like the Folgers incest commercials. The sequels/prequels/etc are there to eliminate Star Wars tie-ins and the like, which I suppose could be considered fanfic, but generally isn't. "Read in context of the original" is to cut out reaction works – say, someone read The Cold Equations and wrote a refutation/reaction to it – but I'm not terribly attached to the wording.

[melannen]

Hmm, "official part of the original universe" doesn't do a great job excluding Star Wars tie-ins, since whether they are officially part of the original universe tends to vary wildly (and change from day to day.)

(I'm fine including all Star Wars tie-ins, including the sequel trilogy, as fanfic but I know a lot of people aren't.) (I'm fine including the first Star Wars movie as fanfic, actually, given how heavily it pulls on Kurosawa movies, but that's a very broad umbrella at that point.)

Not sure what you mean by "read in context of the original". Why would a refutation of The Cold Equations not be meant to be read in context of the original?

[flo_nelja]

My definition is "a work that is created only thinking of a potential public that knows the original work" but I know it's not universal. Some people love to read fic without knowing the fandom, and some people write for them.

It doesn't include remakes (movie adaptations, most greek myth retellings etc). It does include some works written in a franchise, but not all of them. Not most of them I'd say.

[melannen]

Yeah, that is alluringly simple and I want to like it, but it wouldn't include a fair amount of fanfic I've written with the assumption that people who don't know canon might read it.

It would also exclude 90% of Teen Wolf fic written by people who did not know the original work themselves...

[melagan]

I consider fanfiction a work of fiction created by fans of a particular work. Including fanfiction based on works of fanfiction.

an example of a work based off the fanfic Written by the Victors

[melannen]

I like that, although it does sort of follow that once you have become a fan of a particular work you can no longer write anything other than fanfiction. (Possibly true!)

It also requires you to include a real person's life as a "particular wor"k, for RPF.

[commoncomitatus]

Not an answer, just something that piqued my curiosity, hope that's okay?

Given that the definition must include both 'fanfic that is only available for money' and 'stuff done with the rights owner's expicit approval', I'm wondering where that puts tie-in novelisations and the like? By the definition given, it seems those unquestioningly do count as fanfic... but I'm wondering if the addition of official logos, branding, copyright, etc affect whether or not those things are considered fanfic, even when they're officially labelled non-canonical?

(Again, I'm not offering any opinions myself, I'm genuinely just curious and interested in others' thoughts, as I know tie-ins are often seen as a grey area.)

[melannen]

Well, you don't have to include *all* of both of those? For example you could certainly include "fanfic for money" is fanfic and so is "fanfic with the rightholder's approval" but not specifically "fiction the rightsholder is paying you to write". (Although there are edge cases even there. *glares balefully at MZB* )

But yeah, tie-ins have always been a controversial question when it comes to what is fanfic and what isn't. Some people will argue they're definitely fanfiction, and some people will argue they aren't.

(By my original half-serious definition above, tie-ins are fanfic if the writer wrote them as fanfic, and they're also fanfic if the writer stridently argues they aren't fanfic they're real literature, but they might not be fanfic if the writer just shrugs and says they really don't care about the question they just needed the money.)

[forestofglory]

I'm not going to come up with a definition, but I will ramble about definitions and what I think they are good for. I don't think drawing hard and fast boundaries around genres is useful, that way lies nitpicking and gatekeeping. (See for example various conversations about what is Science Fiction featuring definitions constructed exclude most things not written by cishet white men)

Which isn't to say that I don't think we should define genres! Two ways of looking at genres that I have found helpful and lead to interesting conversations are 1) genre as works in conversation and 2) genre as setting reader expectations.

Both of these seem to have potential to offer us insight into fanfic. Fics are very much in conversation with each other both within and across fandoms. Think of the many many cross-fandom tropes, and also about how characterization and fanon develops across fics in the same fandom. Looking at works as in conversation is useful for understanding them in context and for seeing change over time.

I think fic is also doing interesting things in how it sets reader expectations. Obviously fic at least on AO3 provides a lot more metadata to set expectations, but there are also unspoken conventions. It would be interesting to how expectations get set across genres.

[lemonsharks]

I'd argue that Audio-first podfic doesn't exist; rather, it's fic scripted for specifically for audio, unless the creator speaks their creation extemporaneously (or extemporaneously, with some preparation) directly into their microphone and edits the resulting file with no text version existing until the transcript is released.

More thoughts on other stuff later.

[melannen]

Hmm, I guess that's fair enough, although there are definitely fanwriters who work purely in audio through multiple drafts (visually impaired ones, to start with.)

[quailfence]

After some thinking, I think that fanfic involves the following:
1. It is based on a source (another story or someone’s life/real events)
2. It is a story (thus excluding most art and meta
3. There is some kind of addition or change to the original source (thus excluding a lot of recaps or retellings, which generally try to avoid making major changes to the story)
4. It is unofficial - the original creator or rights-holder of/to the source has not created the new story, nor have they asked someone else to write it

[melannen]

I like that, although relying on the idea of being "official" does automatically classify everything fanfic that doesn't have someone able to make it official. So that puts all of Shakespeare into fanfic, as well as most of the classic Disney movies (which is true for some people!), and it means Enola Holmes is somehow fanfic but Sherlock isn't, just because one of them was willing to pay off the estate preemptively (which is a little bit weirder to me).

[castiron]

Does fanfic have to be written by someone other than a creator of the original work? If an author writes an original work that they'd initially intended as a standalone, but afterwards they decide they're interested enough in the characters/universe that they want to explore them in further books, are they writing fanfic of their own work, or just more original work?

[melannen]

That's a good question! I would say, based entirely on vibes, that an author writing a novel based on a previously published short story isn't writing fanfic, but Yoon Ha Lee writing MoE Yuletide treats on AO3 or Diane Duane doing a YW OTP drabble meme on Tumblr is. But I'm not sure where the line between them is (especially since some of the stories in YHL's anthology were pretty much indistinguishable from the Yuletide treats based on content and form.)

[lemonsharks]

I have never agreed so hard as I do with melannen's three points upthread, which are (un?)fortunately fuzzy on the borders.

That leaves Dante and Virgil both in a weird place of being in Schrodinger's Drawer. The Aeneid and The Divine Comedy are both fic in general, but they're even more fic when someone is trying to deligitimize fic.

Then you have the Eugene Lee Yang "I don't understand fanfiction; I would rather just write spec scripts." corollary to:

"It's fic if the creator says it's fic"

Is it fic if the creator says it's not fic? Is it fic if it's a spec script? If it's Anne Rice publishing her Jesus RPF insisting that it is in fact not Jesus RPF?

[melannen]

I think that's definitely a good start I would mostly agree with, but does that mean to you that *all* fiction outside the wage-labor* system is automatically fanfic? Are somebody's autobiographical-fiction essays they wrote just to keep busy in retirement fanfic?

*Let's say wage-labor rather than capitalist because the Strugatsky brothers were very much professional writers.

[ratcreature]

For me it's a "I know it when I see it" kind of thing, like most genres.

I think recognition works on a kind of fuzzy setting, where there are a bunch of criteria (legal status, typical tropes, (non)profit motive of the writer, community with audience, derivative from other source...) and if it fits enough of those it's fanfic, but not every fanfic has to fit the platonic ideal of fanfic that's prototypical and really fits every marker you can think of.

[pipisafoat]

I quite honestly have nothing to add to this discussion that hasn't already been said ("know it when I see it" sometimes, or "by author and/or audience common agreement" are my general definitions), but I wanted to drop a note to say thank you for starting such an interesting discussion!

[beradan]

Pretty sure any definition that has to cover all that is going to be about as clear as a comprehensive definition of "fiction."

ETA: in that vein, what's your definition of "fiction"?

[starwatcher]

I kind of thought people were more likely to label various works as 'fanfic' than not, in a sort of derogatory way. I must admit, I tend to see the world in very basic ways, so if someone says, "It's fanfic," I have no impulse to argue.

For me, fanfic would be, "Works based around the characters or universe of other works, whether written, visual, auditory, or performative." By this definition, sports teams or bands would be presenting 'performative works'.

But mostly, I don't worry about it. A fandom person knows what I mean, even if our definitions might differ in details. If a non-fandom person asks, I tell them, "Stories that fans write about the characters in TV shows or movies." They don't usually want to know more than that -- and if they do, the internet is a great research tool.

<shrug> The few non-fandom people that I've told I've written fanfic almost invariably said, "When are you going to publish?" That got old real quick, so now I only tell close friends, or people who I know are a part of fandom.

[stellar_dust]

A written and/or narrative work of fiction that is at least loosely based on characters, situations, and/or settings that were arguably not invented by the fic creator. Added after reading comments: intended primarily for audiences familiar with the transformed characters/situations/settings.

Excludes fanart but includes comics, film, and nonnarrative written work; and the word "arguably" does a lot of work re: pro scifi, litfic set in NYC, original fic with fanfic tropes (and my OCs were roommates!! arguably qualifies as a nonoriginal 'situation' written for a familiar audience). This would include TW fic written by and for people with no canon knowledge, and could arguably either include or exclude published scifi where FTL spaceships are commanded by basically naval officers.

Regarding profic, I think it has to be included in order to fit both your criteria about including paid & authorized fic and not relying on legal definitions. Profic is only a thing in specific legal contexts.


An alternate definition i'm not sure about but i think is worth discussing: a work that elicits feelings of recognition and familiarity in its intended audience. So every cozy novel you read after the first one is fic. Marvel movies are fic. Arthouse films and literary fiction are trying really hard not to be fic. Idk.

[nocturnus33]

You might like to scroll over the Fandom-Related Collections at the University of Iowa https://www.lib.uiowa.edu/sc/resources/fandomresources/

[melannen]

I've *donated* to U of I! It's an interesting variety of stuff.

[nyctanthes]

"fiction written by a fan about the thing they're a fan of"

I like this definition.

[arcanetrivia]

We could argue about pure drawerfic I guess

...We can? Why would this somehow not be fanfic? I mean maybe it's not doing anybody any good just sitting in my digital drawer (although tbh some things I've written probably are doing more good there than airing them on AO3 ;) ), but how does that make it not "A story I wrote using characters and settings taken from some previously published piece of media"?

My pet peeve is that "fanfic" cannot include official entries in a series. You can dislike an installment all you like, but that doesn't mean it's "just fanfic" of the earlier ones you liked better, you party pooper. It's effectively using the word "fanfic" dismissively, as a pejorative, that it is always and without exception of poor quality and probably a thing only sad weirdoes and stupid teenagers engage in doing.

[silveradept]

I agree that fanfic should never be used as a pejorative, but when you talk about "official" entries in a series, does that include series that have multiple authors, either by another author writing after the death of the previous one, or in the comics world, where a writer is expected to contribute a certain number of issues and stories and then pass on to the next author? Especially those series in comics where one author takes the character in a specific direction and the next author pulls them in the opposite direction because they didn't like that characterization? Are both of those interpretations of the character excluded from the definition of fanfic, because they appeared in an official installment, even though they can't exist simultaneously? (which is why we have official metaverses, of course, but…) If all of the possible interpretations of character are potentially canonical and not fanfic, where does that put people who write fanfic of specific runs and their canonization? They're fanfic solely because they're not officially in charge of a run, even though they're trying their best to match the characterization of an official run?

(It's okay if the answers to this are "yes, nothing that's been made official can be considered fanfic, because it's official." It just seems to exclude a big swath of things that I would consider fanfic.)